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Show Notes: Mastering Security Excellence: Key Lessons from Jerry Heying’s Career | Episode #44

Travis

Overview

#044 – Today, I am delighted to introduce Jerry Heying, CEO and President of the International Protection Group (IPG), overseeing global executive protection, secure transportation, and security services across 40+ countries. He also serves as Executive Protection and Security Director at the Executive Protection Institute, a training school certifying specialists and trainers over his 18-year tenure. He carries an incredible depth of knowledge and experience from his career, which you’ll hear more about in our conversation. In this episode, we explore career lessons on educating practitioners, thoughts on continual learning, the business of security, and more.


Highlights from This Episode

  1. Discover your passion in the security profession; it sustains long-term engagement and drives daily excitement, even after decades in the industry.
  2. Embrace the mindset of an eternal student, continual learning is essential, as “we don’t know what we don’t know,” and humility often follows early overconfidence.
  3. Mentorship plays a critical role in development; seek it actively, learn from others’ experiences (even unknowingly), and pay it forward by helping newer practitioners succeed.
  4. Facilitate adult learning rather than traditional top-down teaching; draw on students’ existing knowledge and life experience to create richer, more collaborative educational environments.
  5. Get actively involved in professional organizations like ASIS, volunteer, join committees, and attend conferences; involvement creates opportunities that passive membership never will.
  6. Networking through face-to-face interactions and conferences is invaluable; it’s often “who knows you” rather than “who you know” that opens doors.
  7. Map your career like a GPS: define where you are, where you want to be, visualize success, and set practical milestones while staying open to valuable detours.
  8. Pay your dues without shame, start from entry-level roles, prove reliability through timeliness and attitude, and recognize that every position builds essential habits and experience.
  9. Ethics are non-negotiable in this small industry; adhere to the golden rule, honor agreements, and consider long-term consequences, as poor decisions can permanently damage reputation and opportunities.
  10. Entrepreneurial lessons: watch cash flow closely (growth too fast is a leading cause of failure), learn from mistakes, and plan for career transitions beyond fieldwork.

Memorable Quotes:

RESOURCES MENTIONED

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Transcript from this episode

*Note: this transcript was generated using automated software, and may not be a perfect transcription. But I hope you find it useful.

Travis: Welcome back to the Security Student Podcast. ..Jerry, welcome to the podcast. I've been looking forward to this conversation for some time now. I think you bring a really unique perspective because I haven't had on a ton of practitioners that have the level of experience that you have, especially on the business and entrepreneurial and really your work on the education side as well. 

So I think this will be a really cool opportunity for listeners out there to get a unique perspective from education to business in the security industry. So welcome and thank you for joining me. 

Jerry: Yeah, Travis, thank you so much. I love the title of your podcast, this security student. And as I shared with you before, I was going along in my career and suddenly I thought I knew everything and I had a humbling experience and it set me on the path to be the eternal student of this profession. 

I always love learning and hearing other people's testimonies is welcoming too because you learn from that. And I am one of the OGs, I guess, in this industry. I've been around for just under 50 years and I love it. It's been a great path and I'm happy to share anything that might help especially the younger students of security. 

Travis: Yeah, and I could absolutely relate on the side of being humbled many times and I don't see that stopping anytime in the future. I think one good place for us to start, Jerry, just to lay the groundwork for the conversation, could you share a bit about what your career path has looked like? And I know we've talked before about how we don't want necessarily the conversation just to be like Jerry's resume, more we could extrapolate some of those principles and learning points that other listeners can apply in their day to day. But could we kick things off with a little bit about your career path and what that's looked like? 

Jerry: I often tell people I'm a former hippie ski bum that fell into this profession. I went from being involved in construction and then construction management that led me to property management and then end up managing properties that had security and then it fell under my responsibilities and it became a passion of mine and I realized at a certain point that I wanted to transition from property management into security management. Then I was a student of security in joining ASIS and taking a lot of different courses and then that kind of led me to getting involved in executive protection. But also I opened a security agency. 

I got my license in New York in 1989 and then my intention was not to be a guard agency per se but New York State has the Guard Act requiring security to be trained, vetted, or registered, things like that. And because I had a license, people through contracts at hand, I really thought, gee, how hard could this be? I honestly started my security company on credit cards. I didn't know anything about business. I didn't really know anything about guard agencies. 

But that got me going. I think a book, we send a follow-up, my company is called Ready, Fire Aim. If you plan to have everything prepared, all your ducks and the ball, sometimes you never get ready to pull the trigger. And I seemed to kind of get an idea and then fire and then try to catch up with that. But it's kind of a brief introduction of how I fell into this industry. 

Travis: It's really interesting to hear. And you're not the first person I've talked to that kind of didn't initially start out set towards a career in security where it kind of happened to you, but then you realized that you had a passion for it. And one thing I wanted to ask you, Jerry, so I was watching an interview recently and you're from New York, so maybe you could relate to this. 

But there's an interview out there with Customado. He's the trainer for Mike Tyson. And if you know the story about Mike Tyson, his trainer met him when Mike Tyson was probably in his early to mid teens and the trainer custom out. He was already 70 years old. 

So this was like his last opportunity to train a young athlete that had a chance to become the heavyweight champion of the world. And in one of these interviews, it's like very grainy late 1970s or early 1980s film. One of these interviewers from ESPN or maybe one of the other sports groups, they're asking him, hey, cuss, like what keeps you going? You're 70 years old and you're still out here every day training this young athlete. And he remarks how, you know, many people around him, they've kind of, they have all their accomplishments, they could easily just check out. 

But for him, he had this single minded goal, getting him up every single day to make this young kid the champion of the world. So Mike, this is a very long way of asking, Jerry, you have so much experience, you've done this for such a long time. What is it that keeps you going to where you want to be continually learning and continually involved in your business and mentoring others? What is it that keeps you so involved and engaged and passionate? 

Jerry: Well, I think that's the word, passion. Many times when I'm talking to young people, I don't ask what their dream was or is. I tell people my dream was to play rock, guitar, have long hair and have women chase me. And honestly, you can dream anything. And in your dreams, you can see yourself doing anything and being a hero, being a super, you know, whatever. But I ask people what's your passion? And of course, a lot of young people, you know, they're not quite sure, they tell them that's awesome. 

But when you find your passion, then that's what you want to go for. I am a bless beyond measure, I think of the experiences I've had, the people I've met, the things that I've done. And I am excited. And I recently sold my uniform guard agency. And so some people think I'm retired, and they say I was retired live. 

And I say, I'm not retired, I don't think I'll ever be retired. I love what I do. I get excited. You know, so many things are ahead of me. 

And that's what keeps you going every day. So I can understand the trainer with Mike Tyson, that that idea of seeing also young talent. And I was fortunate to meet Mike Tyson one early in his career. And it's funny, he was telling me a commercial that was going to be played after he won a fight that he had yet, it's fight, but the anticipation was he was going to win. And, you know, it wasn't that he was cocky, it was just really good. 

Travis: Right. Yeah, that's so funny. Yeah. And back in the day, it was like, people would pay all this money for a pay per view fight, and then the fight would only last one round or half around. But on that note, Jerry, I was curious, what role has mentorship, either you being the mentor or others mentoring you, what role has that played in your development? Oh, absolutely. 

Jerry: Quite a number of people were mentors to me. And some I've been knowing or and or I was taking mentorship from them, whether they were of the mind to mentor me. And it was just looking up to them and what they had done. 

And trying to be that sponge. And again, after I had a humbling experience, where I really thought I knew everything. And one of my mentors, Dr. Richard W. Kovach, who founded the Execution Institute, I had met him, she was like in 1978 at a conference, you know, studying terrorism. 

And then later, when I went to EPI, I think 1996, and haven't already been around the world and had all these wonderful experiences. But one of his sayings is, we don't know what we don't know. And the funny thing is, I didn't know, I didn't know. And I was shocked to find out I didn't know. 

And was very humbled by it. And that kind of set me on a path to be that eternal security student. I made a determination, I have to be the student, always learning. And even when I'm teaching, I'm looking for things. And sometimes I hear myself thinking or talking when I'm teaching a subject. And sometimes I'll say to myself, wow, that's pretty cool. 

Did I just say that? But it's like, another part of me heard something I said, and then took it in like a learning point. And I've learned from many students, you know, teaching a class. 

A student said something to me, and I had never heard that before. And then I embraced that and took it into part of my teaching philosophy. So, well, and I, it's fun, I have a saying, I believe everybody's entitled to my opinion. 

And I love sharing it. But I am really interested in helping people. When I give instruction, either in firearms or executive protection, defense, it's protection driving. I tell people, I'm there for you. 

If you have a question, you know, call me. I want to help people succeed in their careers. And that's part of a passion that I have too. And it's such a joy to see somebody that you try to excel in, you know, one of our graduates at Executive Protection Institute, he went to the White House, Uniform Secret Service, and he's a captain there now. And, you know, he said to me, Jerry, the, you know, training I receive from you helped me. And that's such a cool feeling. And I really, um, employs a mind that excel and become CPPs or directors of security. It's such a joy to see that. And I want anybody that, say, receives information from me to, you know, you can take it to another level. 

Travis: I really like the way that you put that. And I think being in a learning environment like you're in, where you're running a training program, it's almost like you can't, you can't help but continue learning. When you're surrounded by those types of people that are continuously learning, you almost just absorb it through osmosis where you feel like, okay, I need to revisit, what's my plan this year? What am I focused on learning or getting better at? Or what is some skill gap or knowledge area that I need to think about? 

For example, I could think about in my current role right now, I'm very much surrounded by consultants that are always continually learning, which is not easy to find. I think there's, I heard someone say before that there's kind of like two types of security practitioners that you work with. There's some who maybe they had a previous career in a different profession. And now this is kind of like their pre-retirement thing. 

And then there's others where this is their passion. This is what they've been doing for 10, 15, 20 years. And they're always learning. 

And this you know, just like a Spartan carries a shield and a spear, like this is, this is the profession that they are focused and passionate about. And I think when you're surrounded by those people who are always continually learning, it just rubs off on you and it builds a culture of learning in that environment. And that gets me thinking, Jerry, being so involved in education over the years, is there anything that's really stood out to you as maybe something you didn't expect in terms of how security practitioners learn or what is what are better learning environments? What are less beneficial learning environments? Are there any lessons you've kind of learned over the years that were surprising to you when it comes to educating security practitioners? 

Jerry: There's an old school and it's funny, I tell people I'm old school. I was raised by a colonel and very disciplined. And you know, I told my dad that discipline was not easy. 

I will not lie, but it helped me be a better man. But there's old school, there's a new school and there's a new age. But something that happened when I took over the Executive Protection Institute from Dr. Kovetz, you know, he was an older gentleman, came from law enforcement and kind of the law enforcement training mentality was sit down, shut up, listen, maybe you'll learn something. 

But we know everything, you know nothing. And when I took over, I was fortunate to have a couple people around me. And one of the individuals had a saying that we teach, we teach kids and we teach or we train dogs, but we don't teach or train adults. We facilitate adult learning. And so we change the method of training, because a lot of times in a classroom setting, we have students that have a lot of knowledge. And then, you know, even a student say in our Executive Protection Training Program, who's never done it, they have life experience, they have, you know, it's not like they're newborn babies that don't know anything. They have knowledge, but the student base is also a base of learning for all the other students. For example, in one of our classes, and this happens often, and we have a detailed leader who's protecting a governor. 

So he's running the protection of a, you know, government official, a governor, and then he's a student. And so, Eric brings all this knowledge with them. And then in that learning environment, one is we try to draw from the students. We try to ask questions, we try to draw out of them, as opposed to just standing in front of them lecturing. And so, you know, we try to embrace that facilitating adult learning, that people have knowledge, they have life experience. And, you know, and even sometimes without knowing, and they know what to do, a lot of times when you're giving a point, they understand that they cannot embrace it, you're not talking to like a newbie that doesn't know anything. And so with that approach, we really try to recognize that when students are in front of you, some of them could be up in front of the classroom teaching, and maybe even know more about the subject than you do. 

So that's important to facilitate that and facilitate adult learning, as opposed to teaching or training. That's that made a big impact on how I look at things. And sometimes I look back on my early career as a firearms instructor thinking, wow, I'd like to go back and revisit those people and say, you know, I was such an arrogant instructor thinking I knew everything, you didn't know anything. But, you know, you grow and you learn. And then you move forward. And, you know, so I think that adult learning or facilitating adult learning is really key. 

Travis: That's a really good point. Yeah, being able to, like you said, kind of draw information out of the students, that's definitely a really good way where you could get more of their experience, more of their real life stories that are going to relate back to the content of the course. Because sometimes it's those stories where maybe the, maybe the student had kind of like a oh shoot type moment that the other people in the class don't want to have. And it's something that's really going to stick in their mind so that when they're out in the field, they're going to think back to this very tangible, concrete story that another student told, that's going to make them remember the content. 

And it's going to stick with them so much better. And then I think another part of that too, they say in terms of learning, one of the best ways to learn too, is to teach others and to share your information with them. So the way that you're describing the content of your courses, it's not only, it's not only more engaging, bringing the students in and having them being really part of the discussion and the conversation, not just teaching at them, but then it's also making that knowledge really stick with them even better. So I think that's a really interesting idea that a lot of people can take away, whether they're teaching courses or maybe some of it is just educating some of their clients. So I really like that idea. 

Jerry: And another thing that we do too is we used to use classroom style and some environments that we come into or set up that way or into our fix, but at our seven day program, we have round tables and we ask the students to move around every day. 

And that way, they get to know all the other students, which is helpful for networking and learning. And then also, we do what we call the wall of knowledge. We take these sticky pads, they're big, I don't know how two foot by three foot or something. And we make key points of a presentation. 

And then we put it up on the wall. And then periodically, we revisit that, we do a review. And we feel that people are leaving with more retention of our program than before. Like when I went through the program many years ago, if we start out Sunday night and then finish Saturday afternoon, it's an intense 100 hour training. But anywhere along the way, even on on Monday afternoon, somebody said on Sunday evening, the presentation, it's hard to remember what, oh, because you're just absorbing, absorbing, absorbing and you're taking notes. But by the wall of knowledge, where we put up important points and review it, a kind of periodic daily reviews, then people are leaving with more. And I encourage also some type training program, I tell people, don't be a copy machine. If you're so intent on taking notes and trying to write everything that's on a PowerPoint, the information you've seen, the information that goes to your hand on the piece of paper and it doesn't stay in your brain. So I say, of course, take notes, but take the short notes, but try to absorb the information and think about the information as opposed to just transferring it to paper. And that's hard because sometimes, you know, some people can be obsessive notators. And I do take a lot of notes, but I tell them, don't get lost in the note taking because it'll be on that paper and you have to revisit it, try to make sure you absorb it. But I think for us, the wall of knowledge, and for other instructors, think about that, putting up important points and then revisiting it, then people will leave your training program with good retention of information. 

Travis: I like that point. And I think you're completely right. When it comes to note taking, many students, we might get a false sense of competency or a false sense of a grasp of the information just because we take a volume of notes. But if you could do something like you're talking about where you're pulling out key themes, key ideas that are kind of support the main points or the body of conversation or the discussion, I think that's definitely very useful. And it makes me think too when it comes to education for security practitioners, is there any, I don't know, do you have a particular philosophy about trying to invest in your own education, maybe that's aiming for doing a couple courses a year or getting out to at least a networking event a year or trying to read a couple of books every blah, blah, blah. Is there any particular philosophy that kind of guides you in your own investment in your learning, Jerry? Yes. 

Jerry: That's a really good point. And I think I do try to take in different courses. And then I've been a member of ASIS, for examples, for almost 40 plus years. 

So I try to go to GSX. And one thing I want to share, and we talked about this earlier, is that I saw a post on LinkedIn that said, I don't know whether I should pay for my membership in ASIS. I don't know what I'm getting out of it. And I had to laugh because I had felt that way many years ago. And I wasn't overly involved in the organization or doing things. And a friend asked me if I wanted to be on a council. 

And it could kind of occur to me that either you're on the field playing the game, or you're in the stands and you're a fan. And so I kind of thrust myself into the industry. I got involved. And I encouraged people, if you're just paying dues to be involved in a membership, you might not get that much out of it. But try to get involved, try to be a volunteer. I'm one of the founding board members of the International Protective Security Board that came out of a conference that I had created called Epic, the Executive Protection International Conference that we did for about six years. 

And then it grew and grew. And so being kind of one of the founding board members, I go to that conference every year, the Close Protection Conference. And I encourage people, it's so important to go to conferences and also face-to-face networking, F2F, I call it. Face-to-face, I'm more likely to hire somebody I met with limited experience than somebody that I get a resume that's just incredibly awesome, but I've never met them before. And so attending conferences, and sometimes you go to a conference, maybe 45-minute session that's presenting on a topic or something like that. 

Yeah, I'm looking for new ideas too. And I'm trying them, what can I learn from this? And I think the problem was sometimes people that have a little bit of experience, they say to themselves, I know this, I know this, well, of course you know that, you know a lot. But I'm looking for what I don't know, or I'm looking what, how somebody says something that's a little different. I was at a conference just this past well early this month, and one of the presenters said some things that really struck me in a positive way. And I really, when I told them, I appreciate the way you expressed that point. Did I have that same point? Maybe, but I didn't express it the same way. 

And so I liked the way, the manner in which that point was expressed. So conferences, getting involved, I joined ASIS, I was on the Fire and Life Safety Council. What was interesting, I, you know, kind of from my property management experience, I had responsibilities for fire and life safety. But fire and life safety is critical for directors of security that often that falls under them. 

And a lot of people that say retire from law enforcement or former law enforcement come into security, fire and life safety may be something new to them. But that involvement in the Fire and Life Safety Council led me to the Executive Protection Council later became the Executive Protection Community. And I got involved in it. And inadvertently, I became the vice chair and then the chair. 

And it's funny, I've had many experiences in my life where I fall into things. But if I wasn't there and involved, those opportunities wouldn't have, you know, come across. So my encouragement to people in the industry is get involved. You know, for example, Executive Protection, the IPSB on the Close Protection Conference, you can be a volunteer there, you know, GSX, there are many areas to get involved in. 

And I like the way that they create, they took away the councils and they transitioned the councils into community. And so you can be a member of a community of physical security or school safety or Executive Protection. And you can, you know, get involved in that way. And then they do have steering committees. And you, and also what they've done is in years past, some of the people would have the chair position and not relinquish it. They would be the chair forever and ever and ever. Or the council members would not move. They have terms now. 

And so, like I served a two-year term as the chair and then I became the chair emeritus. But, you know, other people can get involved. And so that's an encouragement. And I meet some folks that say, well, I'm kind of a lightweight in the industry. I was the super lightweight when I got involved. I was like, when I first got involved with ASIS, I was 24 years old. 

And I would go to New York City meetings and these, they were the big dogs, the, you know, former chiefs, former deputy chiefs of NYPD or whatever. And the funniest thing was I got my CPP in 1989. And at one of the ASIS meetings, they said, well, all the CPP stand up and out of 100 people in the room, there were five of us. 

And all of a sudden, the big dogs and the old dogs were coming up to me, the little puppy, asking me for advice on how to pass the test or things like that. So, I tell people, and there's no shame in being young. There's no shame in being a novice. And I marvel at young people getting involved, saying executive protection. I say, oh my God, if I could have got involved at your age, you have such a career path ahead of you. Don't underestimate yourself. 

There's no shame in being a novice. Something that I often equate to is, for example, people who want to do executive protection. I say you, it's similar to those that want to be an actor. You want to be an actor, you go to an acting school, and you, you know, you pick there's different acting schools and community colleges, whatever. But when you graduate, you've learned that the craft, you've learned some trade. But now what do you do? And I tell people, well, you wake tables because you have to audition for bit parts. And you have to start out somewhere. 

And there's no shame in being new. But you have to recognize, don't think you're going to be a star right out of the gate. You know, you're going to have bit parts, you're going to, you know, do halls and walls in the EP, you're going to have a minor role, you're going to drive a luggage vehicle. And sometimes people come up to me that are new and say, you know, can I work for you? 

And I say, I'm going to put you as far away as I can from the principal, you're going to be watching a dumpster on the overnight to make sure that there's not a dumpster fire. I mean, you got to prove yourself. You know, you got to pay your dues. 

And that's just the way it is. But keep at it. Keep going for it. Don't lose that passion. Don't lose that drive and stick at it and enjoy the course too, enjoy the path. 

Travis: I like the point that you make when you say you have to start somewhere because I can completely relate to this. So the first security role I ever had, this is like, by this time, I'm pretty much almost done with my time as an MP in the Marine Corps Reserve. But my first real security role, I was working at Disneyland as a security officer. 

I was probably the only person that had, this is only for like a pretty short period, but I was definitely the only security officer that had a bachelor's degree and an EMT cert. And like my MP training, I was probably the most overqualified 12 dollar an hour security guard. But at the same time, you have to start somewhere I needed some private security to put on the resume. Actually, I was talking to an EP manager and he said, look, I'm not going to hire you unless you go work as a security officer somewhere. 

So just go work anywhere because I just you have to have some level of experience working on the private side because this is not the military, this is not law enforcement, this is not anything like that. So I can absolutely relate when you say that you have to start somewhere. Even if it's suffering through some role and you think you're overqualified for the 12 dollar an hour role, it's something that you just have to do. It's kind of part of the initiation. 

Jerry: Yeah, that and paying dues and learning, there's a lot to be learned. And you know, I've seen people that start out doing guard work for me. And then I see them and I tell people you need to be properly dressed on time with the right attitude. And so many times, I've had really qualified protectors, but if they couldn't be on time or have the right attitude, and many times replaced it with a less qualified person, then had those three things, they were, you know, had a good attitude, they're properly dressed on time. 

It's funny, one time we were getting ready for a big event, my guard agency in New York City, we did specially dance, we did the New York City marathon, we, you know, for 17 years, we did quite a number of big things and we were had a big hiring. And I poked my head in the training office, training room, and one of my supervisors said, Oh, here's the owner, the CEO. And, and then Jerry, would you like to say a few words? 

And so I stepped in. And without thinking, I, I just started introducing this concept, I said to everyone, what does CEO stand for? You know, and people had different things and, you know, chief executive officer, and I said, I said, each one of you is a CEO of an enterprise called me, my enterprise. And I said, you're the CEO of your own company, and you're providing a service to me. So I said, technically, you're an employee, and I'm an employer. However, you're the CEO of your enterprise, and you're responsible for your output, you're responsible for the results of your company supplying a service to my company. And so you, you know, you are responsible. So the supervisor just said, you have to be on time, don't be on time, because the supervisor said you'd be on time, do be on time, because your company is providing a service to my company. And, and that's a good habit. And, you know, I, I also said to the room here, who wants to be a security guard for the rest of their life? 

And of course, no hands went up. And I said, there's no shame in doing this as, as a starting position, there's no shame in making money. I said, whatever you want to be, but I said, here, who wants to be a musician, and a couple of hands went up and I said, if you have the opportunity to audition, and you're told to be somewhere at nine o'clock, what time are you going to be there? You're going to be there at 9 30, you're going to be there at 10 40, 9 45. No, you should be there at, you know, if it's nine o'clock, you should be there at eight 30, you know, build in time. So the reason you should be on time for this guard job is not because it pays, you know, and actually minimum wage, when I first started my company was by 15 an hour. But I said, don't be there because of that, be there because it's a good habit. 

Make good habits so that because God forbid you have an opportunity to audition for a part, and you're told to be there at nine, and you come in at 9 30, and they say the part's already taken. Goodbye. Or we're not going to see you. 

You're late. So I said, once again, you're the CEO of me, my enterprise, and you have to always think you're responsible for the outcome of your company's providing services to everywhere else. So, and it's funny, I walked out of the room, I said, wow, where did that come from? You know, it just came out of my brain. 

But I started using that more and more telling, you know, especially young people, you're the CEO of your own company. Call me. So, you know, take that, or you know, don't underestimate who you are. You're the CEO. You're a CEO. 

Travis: Yeah, and you talk about showing up to the audition on time. And I think one of the parts, one of the key points is to even get the opportunity to go to the audition. You have to go out to the conferences, you have to meet people, you have to, like you said, actively participate in working groups or professional groups. For example, myself, I just joined the steering committee for ASIS's Critical Infrastructure Group. And I'm not the world's authority on Critical Infrastructure, getting a very good amount of experience on the transportation side. But there's many ways that I could support the rest of the group there, whether it's helping them develop surveys, produce articles, create educational content. 

So I really do encourage so many people out there that they should just find a local group or even an online group that they could contribute to. Because when it comes to even getting that opportunity to show up to the audition, so much of that is going to rely on previous relationships that you've developed. If I could give a quick example for myself, I think almost every meaningful, impactful security role I've ever had, nine out of 10 times, I had some previous relationship, I had an interaction with the person, whether it was online, in person at a conference, part of a working group, maybe we worked together in some capacity. But having those relationships is so critical, especially when we think about the current job market. 

Maybe in security, it's probably a little better than other areas. But when we go through tough job markets, having these previous relationships that we could rely on, even if it's not something that's going to get us an interview, even if it's just advice, how do I change from being a, how do I change from going working as an analyst to being a physical security consultant? Or whether it's any of these areas about transitioning or growing. So I just think so much gets back to existing relationships that we have. And then also having developed a reputation that's going to precede us. 

Jerry: Oh, absolutely. We try to encourage people. It's not, it doesn't come down to really who you know, it's who knows you. And one thing that I've learned over time, and this is in any organization, NGOs, House of Worship, professional organizations, 10% of the people do 90% of the work. 

And so, and that's why I kind of built my zone as a former hippie ski boom. I don't make any big deal. I didn't do law enforcement. I mean, I did auxiliary police, but didn't do military just because of a medical condition. But you got involved and then you get on a steering committee like that and take on work assignments, get involved and produce. And that's the same thing being a volunteer. We try to emphasize that at EPI too, what's your social capital? 

And it's what can you do? When you do things for others, then they're looking at what they can do for you. Or if you ask somebody for a favor, what have you done? Or if somebody does you a favor, now you're indebted to them. 

So you should, when they ask for something from you, you should give. And when you're in a committee, or like a steering committee like that, and some of these committees, the steering committees, they're hungry for people. They're hungry for people volunteering to be on the committee because it reeks. And of course, there's always some people that joined and put it on the resume on the steering committee. 

And they do nothing. And but over time, the committee chair, that's why there's some criteria. You have to be participating in so many meetings and things. Otherwise people join these committees and then they sit back. 

And that was kind of the old way of the councils. But I encourage people get involved. And when you get involved and you're a volunteer, and then people know about you, they see what you're doing, don't sit back and don't underestimate yourself, your knowledge. That's why I said, I was like the little puppy in an environment of all these big dogs. But through involvement, and sometimes the big dogs come to the little puppy asking for advice. Like, you know, and I really felt that way. I mean, I got these big heavy hitters, big former chiefs or whatever asking me for advice. 

I thought it was kind of humorous, like, oh, you want to hear from the puppy, do you? But you get involved and just keep going. There's something about putting your head down. Just keep going forward. And don't worry about it. Every now and then you got to look up where my, how's my progress. One thing I encourage people is, and we talked about this, is your career path. 

It's helpful to look at your career path somewhat like GPS. So you're in Vegas and you want to go to Seattle. Well, you could head north and maybe you'll hit it. 

Or you can map out a route. And so within your career paths, you have to look at where am I? Okay, where do I want to be? And then I'm a student of Napoleon Hill, or I'm thinking, girl rich. 

You have to see in your mind, you being able to be successful and whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve. And that's true. That book changed my life. I mean, absolutely changed my life. And positive thinking. You have to have positive thinking. You can't think, oh, I don't have any experience. 

I'll never be able to do this. Well, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If that's how you feel. So you have to overcome negative thoughts. You have to have positive thoughts. And there's no shame in recognizing where you're at. 

Hey, I'm low man on the totem pole here. But just keep working forward. And that's how I found myself on what I've started on the Fire and Life Safety Council. And maybe before you knew it, I was a vice chair and then became the chair. And there were people around me on the council at that time that had a lot more experience in me. 

But as willing to take responsibility, it was really willing to learn and also guide things. And then that led me to another council, the VP Council. And before you knew it, I was the vice chair and the chair. And you just progress. So I tell people, don't underestimate yourself. Don't look at where you are now. Look at where you want to be and then strive to get there. But see practical points along the way. Otherwise, it's wishful thinking. Well, I want to be an EP agent to a celebrity. 

Okay. Well, unless you see a path to get there, then that's just a dream or that's a wishful thing. So map it out. 

Map it out. And there is something about being in the right place at the right time, meeting the right person. That can happen by happen chance. Or you can decide where the right place is, who's the right person to meet, and then put yourself there. 

Travis: Yeah, that reminds me. There's an interesting article that was written by this computer programmer. And he kind of lays out, I don't know, maybe it's like 10 bullet points for success in your industry. And one of his bullet points is actually, no, he's talking about getting rich, which is not as relevant here. 

But one of his points is he says, if you want to get rich, you need to be where riches are being made. So you need, so if you want to be a EP agent to an actor, you need to be where those people are. You need to be in that type of environment where it's eventually going to facilitate the interactions that you need. So you could talk with someone and you could say, what are the requirements to get there? What milestones should I be aiming at? 

How can I develop myself professionally so that when the time comes, when that opportunity finally is knocking, I'm going to be prepared for it? So I think that's a really good idea. And then you also asked the question to Jerry, where do I want to be? And I think this is with something like LinkedIn and with the number of conferences we have in our industry, it's such a great opportunity where you could go talk to someone that's doing the job that you want to do. You could go talk to a CSO, you could talk to the VP of executive protection, you could talk to any number of these people, and you could ask them, hey, what did your career path look like? What do you look for in the hiring process? So I think that's such a big opportunity that we have in front of us for younger people that are still trying to figure out what that career path looks like. So I really encourage people, they have a fantastic opportunity in front of them where they could go to the conferences and talk with these people, or even reach out online where so many people are willing and open to helping younger people that are less familiar with whatever the area of the profession might be. 

Jerry: Exactly. And when I tell people, and when you go to a conference, don't be shy, look around, go to a session and whoever's presented the session, then when they're done, go up. And sometimes there'll be a little group, there'll be a line waiting, but take your time and speak to them. And more often than not, people that say have experience or like you were saying, if you want to do something, ask those that are doing it. 

A lot of times they're willing to share a little bit, but you get the introduction, so hey, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions if you don't mind. It's funny, I'm on LinkedIn, I probably have more than 10,000 people linked into me, and then sometimes some young person will send me a message, would it be possible to look at my resume? And I'm like, sure, send me a resume, take a look at it, or someone will ask me, hey, I'm in this position and I'm looking to get into that position, what's your advice? 

I'll usually take a little bit of time. Once he sent me an email, he asked me if he should do executive protection. And I remember it happened to answer emails, and I'm late at night, like two in the morning, and I responded and I said, no, you should not do this. And I share with them a story where an aspiring actor asked Matt Damon, he said, Matt Damon, should I be an actor? And Matt Damon said no, because if the answer, whether you want to do something is with somebody else, you don't have what it takes. 

If you want to be an actor, you're going to be an actor, be an actor, you know, whether, and it's not whether you're going to get rich and famous, do it because you love doing it, you might be performing in some little playhouse in nowhere, California or something, and but you're going to do it because it's what you love doing. And I shared that with him. And eventually, he came to one of our classes and he said, Jerry, you're the guy that answered my email at two in the morning. And he said, they took out a mortgage on my house to be here. Well, he went off and has had a phenomenal career, phenomenal career. 

He was really happy for him. But the point to, one of the things I like about thinking about rich, it's not all riches are in terms of money. Happiness, happy marriage life. 

I married 47 years and I feel blessed. The think and grow rich, you know, hasn't made me rich per se, you know, or that, you know, I just feel fortunate it came from doing what I love doing. But whether I'm rich or not, I love what I'm doing. And so that's, that's a richness because you look at some people, they're in the grind and they're not happy. You know, they're plugging away. And sometimes some aspects of our career are like that, but we do have to see, well, where am I going next? So. 

Travis: And I like the way that you put that because I can definitely relate to times in my career. Maybe I'm in an ops center staring at cameras or I'm doing an online investigation following the same workflow for the 10,000th time. And you kind of think, okay, is this really what I want to be doing five to seven to 10 years from now? And I think a lot of practitioners, they may discount how much, how valuable it is to be able to take their experiences in one area of security and apply them in another. I think for myself as an example, getting experience in executive protection for several years and then getting experience doing online investigations and threat assessment investigations and working in software for several years. And then being able to take that and then to apply it in the world of physical security consulting. It's been so valuable because I could go back and draw upon that knowledge. 

I have stories and lessons and all these things that I could use. So I think too, one thing for others to consider out there, when they do find theirself on the grind, like you say, they should also consider there's more opportunities out there than just what they're doing in the moment where they could apply much of what they're learning today in another context. 

Jerry: Oh, exactly. And sometimes when you set your career path and an opportunity comes up and you start thinking, geez, am I going off track? But you go along and then suddenly when it comes back on track, you realize, oh my God, that I needed that experience. 

I needed that knowledge. So sometimes when opportunities come along, you might think, well, it seems to be veering off of the path that I set or you're gaining additional knowledge that will be helpful. Like my property management knowledge really came into play in fire and life safety, things like that. And then also, like you said, I became an EMT. 

I was on a detail and the principal was getting up in age and I said, you know, I think I'm going to do this. I joined the local ambulance corps and I did that for eight years. I became an EMT and there were many times where the question was, well, who should go on this detail, Jerry or Bob? Well, Jerry's an EMT. 

Okay, he's on the corporate jet or he's advancing and because he brings added value. And that's what you want to also look at. What else can I bring to the table besides say, okay, I'm an EPA agent? Well, I'm a protection driver. I'm an EPA agent. I'm an EMT. I'm a farms and starters, you know, I'm armed. You know, you bring all these different things that, you know, may or may not be applicable when you're traveling, say, to foreign countries, the arm part might not be so much. But actually, it is too, because you recognize when you carry a lot of times you can recognize the guy over there is Karen and done, I got to keep my eye on who is easy off duty cop. Is he a good guy? 

Is he a bad guy? But you bring all these different experiences, like you say. And then there are some mundane aspects of life or certain jobs become mundane. Don't discount them. Perfect opportunity to be learning too. 

Travis: I think for people listening, it's just about being able to find a learning opportunities in the places where you least expect it. And that makes me also think, Jerry, I wanted to ask you about, like your philosophy or maybe advice that you give to younger practitioners when it comes to ethics and security. I was reading a really interesting book recently, it's called When McKenzie Comes to Town. It's about McKenzie, they're one of the largest management consulting firms in the entire world. 

And this book kind of, it's basically an investigative piece about how they've had some questionable business practices over the last, I don't know, two, three, four decades. But it also gets me thinking about insecurity, we're trusted with so much responsibility. It's really easy to make a poor decision and really ruin your career or ruin your reputation. Is there any type of advice that you tend to give younger practitioners to, I don't know, make them more aware of how making one poor decision can really change the course of your career? You may not even be able to have a career in security if you make a poor decision in some of these high stakes environments. 

Jerry: You have to embrace ethics and you have to have a strong ethics. And when people come to the executive protection institute, they sign a code of ethics to be a graduate or alumni, you have to maintain ethics. And we, the EP industry is a doggie dog industry that people will bite the hand and tease them and things like that. And I do get a lot of calls, for example, when I call, he was a sub working a private family. 

And he said that they were not happy with the prime and they wanted to hire him. And I said, you can't do it. You can't do it. You signed a non-compete. 

And he said, Jerry, I need this. I said, you cannot do it. You have to stand on ethics because this is a small industry. And he said, Jerry, well, you're right. And he followed that advice. 

He said, in less than two weeks, the whole detail ended. Had he taken that, he would have burned a bridge. And so he said, I'm glad that I followed that. So you do have to think of the consequences of that. But it's important that you discover what your ethics are and make sure you make right decisions. And people are short-sighted. They sometimes will not look ahead, not think of the consequences of their actions. And then find that, if they do make a mistake, it can just really crash their whole career. And because their name will go on the industry. 

And so they have to look at the importance of their actions. And then also, do unto others as you would like them to do unto you if, say, a client wants to hire you direct. But the company put you there. 

And you have to think, well, down the road, what if I have a company and I put somebody there and then that person leaves me to go with the client direct? So we have to think of the golden rule. Treat others as you would like them to treat you. And even though there's unethical people around you, it's important for people to recognize, no, I have to have a code. I have to follow. I have to be ethical in my career. 

And I know I have my own personal belief. I call it fortune. Some people might call it karma. I don't benefit if somebody, if something happens to somebody that did something to me. 

What I believe is universe is fair. I try to give them myself. And then if somebody harms me and I didn't do anything to deserve it, something will come along better. I can't, I don't have control over the universe. I don't have control over things. And so I have had people betray me take an account from me or something like that. 

And I'm actually sorry for that person because that's not going to be good for them. That is, and better things come along my way. And I've had it happen so many times. And even like you said, your career path, sometimes you'll find yourself somewhere and you think, why am I here? You know, it's just really beneficial. 

But later on, you recognize, well, that was a valuable add to my experience. But you have to have your own moral code. That's important. You have to realize the importance of it. 

And you'll face some tough decision. That's what ethics is all about too. If ethics was easier, everybody'd have ethics or integrity. 

You know, so you have sometimes make that hard decision, you know what? No, I'm not going to betray the person that hired me. I'm not going to do something unethical. 

Travis: And I like the way that you put it when you say kind of to reframe the idea of ethics, but it's such a small industry. So if you do something stupid, if you betray someone's trust or your violating agreements or your, you know, any number of these factors, also that's going to harm your reputation. It's going to harm your ability to do this type of work in the future, to develop relationships, to develop trust with other businesses. So I mean, at the very least, everyone should be considering if I take this poor decision, it's also going to harm the rest of my career. 

It's not just one single decision. And then like you said too, just thinking back to the golden rule to treat others the way that you want to be treated. And I think that's a very simple way to put it, but also a way that really should guide all of these decisions. And that also gets me thinking, Jerry, I know you've started many businesses and you've operated businesses in the security industry. Are there any big lessons that you've learned that you think might apply to listeners today on the entrepreneur side? 

Jerry: It's funny. I do teach a course on the business of executive protection and security. And a lot of my teaching points are, I made this mistake. You don't want to make that same mistake. Now, I stumbled and fumbled and I was a bit of a doofus sometimes, not knowing about business and got myself in trouble, even got in trouble on the IRS. And Uncle Sam doesn't like when you owe him money. 

I didn't know I owed him money. And I had to get myself out of that trouble. But you're going to make mistakes. You got to learn from those mistakes. 

Don't shy away. And that's that ready fire aim too. Sometimes you want to line everything up and be perfect. You're going to stumble and fumble. 

As long as you learn from those mistakes. It's like in driver training or evasive driver training. I tell people, we're going to put you on an accident over and over and over again. You're going to hit cones. That's like in life, you're going to hit some cones. You learn from it. That's the good thing about a training environment. 

It's a training environment. And that's where you can make mistakes. Well, in business, you're going to make some mistakes. Definitely learn from those mistakes and say, Jesus, even one time I thought my business is going to go under. 

And I told my wife, I said, we might crash here, but give me a year. I'll be back because of what I learned. So just try to be, do the best you can do. 

Recognize you will make some mistakes, but also make sure you learn from others. If other people tell you, like, oh, I wouldn't do business with that guy, there's probably a reason they're saying that. And if you do, then you have to think, okay, I'm taking a chance here. And being an entrepreneur, you do take risks. You're responsible for the outcome of what you do. But just try to minimize those mistakes, but also just you're going to learn from those mistakes. 

Travis: Yeah. And as you talk about some of the mistakes, and I'm sure you talk about this in your business course, is there any particular favorite failure, any favorite mistake that you've made that you've really taken invaluable lessons away from, like one that you could share with the audience? 

Jerry: Oh, well, I did mention the IRS. And one thing I tell those that wanted to get into security business is the number one reason that security companies go under is they grow too fast. And what happens is you have cash flow problems. What happened to me, I was growing so fast, taking on more and more business. 

And then when you take money out of people's paycheck to pay the federal taxes, you have to pay that. Well, what happened was I was growing so fast that I was using that money to finance the growth of my business. Well, it caught up to me. Uncle Sam sent me a letter saying, and when I got this letter, I was dumbfounded. I really was like, wow, I owe Uncle Sam all this money, plus penalties and interest. And I reached out to my CPA, you know, and he said, well, more people owe you more money. And so what it is when people owe you money, it looks good on your books, but it comes down to cash flow. 

But one of the biggest lessons I teach new company owners or people who want to go into business, you have to watch your bottom line. You're spending net dollars, you're not spending gross dollars. So, you know, when you grow a certain amount of money, you know, and the guard business should make in pennies on the dollar, you know, it's a nominal amount of money. E.P., you know, it's a higher percentage, but for every dollar you spend, you have to gross four or five dollars to pay for that dollar. 

So I tell people, watch your bottom line, make sure that your watch your cash flow is critical. Now, I was fortunate, I was able, my CPA helped me get out of that. He negotiated with Uncle Sam. Excuse me, they waived the penalties, but they didn't waive the interest. At that time, the interest was really high, but I was able to get out of that problem. And I often use that as a prime example of people getting into business. You've got to watch your cash flow. You know, what happens is you start rolling in money and you start thinking, oh my God, I can buy a new car, I can do this, I can buy that. You've got to have reserves, and you've got to grow cautiously, but your cash flow is critical. 

It's the number one reason that companies go out of business, they grow too fast. So, you know, that's, that was an important less for me. Once that happened to me, I thought I could never be in trouble with Uncle Sam again, and I never was. Now, they find me a number of times thinking that I'd made mistakes, but we were able to show that, no, you're wrong, especially whatever was when it came to Obamacare. You had to do all this extra reporting. 

And if they thought you made a mistake, what they did is they find you, then you had, it's like you're guilty, and then you have to prove you're not guilty. But, you know, that's another aspect of business too. And also, there's a book called The E-Myth, and good entrepreneurs who are good in a profession, they think, hey, I'm pretty good at this, I'm going to become a businessman. And what happens is when you become a businessman, that becomes your profession. And either you have to get other people to help you with a business, or you have to transition from being a practitioner to a businessman. And one thing I would like to encourage practitioners to is, what are you going to do in the future? 

Like those that are doing, say executive protection, okay, it's a young man's game. As you get older, where are you going to go? And then if you're thinking, I'm just going to stay in the field, stay in the field, stay in the field, there reaches a time where you're not enjoying it, because it becomes a bit of a grind. So you have to look at what can I do with my experience, maybe I can get into management. And then you have to think what's important to be in management, for example, maybe a CPP, you know, that's a credential for management. And then, you know, if you're going to be a business owner, then you have to start thinking, okay, what do I need to know to be a business owner? 

So you have to start taking business courses, accounting courses, you know, things like that, you have to transition your career, like try to look down the road, what do I want to be, what do I want to be doing? Like we said at the beginning of this call, man, I'm just so excited. I wake up and I'm thinking, what am I going to do today? And, you know, what's coming next? I'm excited, like next year, I'm already excited about taking some of my business to foreign countries. You know, that gets me going. And so I'm excited about that. 

Travis: Thank you. I think that's a really interesting lesson when you talk about being very detailed when it comes to the financials and even just hearing the story about you getting a letter from the IRS, just my stomach just drops to the bottom of my abdomen just hearing about it. So I think that's definitely a great lesson for others out there to think about. 

And also you talk about career planning, just thinking long term. And that's something that I thought about also, like when I was working in executive protection, is this, first it was, is this my most valuable contribution in the security industry? For me, I thought, you know, it probably wasn't. But then I thought at the same time too, okay, 20 years from now, is this what I want to be doing? Do I want to be managing a team like this? Do I want to be, do I want to be traveling this much, especially when the stakes are so high? For me, that just seems like maybe a level of stress that I don't necessarily want to have day to day. So I think, yeah, like you say, career planning, thinking long term, thinking about what you need to do to get to whatever that end destination is. 

So I really like the way that you put that. And Jerry, as we start to wrap up our conversation here, is there anything else that you wanted to share? Or is there anything that we might have skipped over that you really wanted to talk about? 

Jerry: No, well, I think we covered a lot. I would just go back to that encouragement for people to find what they're passionate about. Like, you know, within executive protection, my passion was advance work. 

I just love going ahead and preparing, receiving the client, you know, from the airport to the venue, I mean, to the residence and then to the venue and then back to the plane. And I'll say, go, you know, I became very passionate about that. So find out what is your passion. And then go for it. And again, the bottom line is if you want to do something, do it. I think Yoda says there's no try. Do or don't do. 

So do. I think we covered a lot. And I just want to encourage the security student, the student of security, be a student, always learning, looking at what you can learn. And I was listening to this podcast, I hope, you know, some of this can help you. And then really embrace the learning aspect of your career. And don't think, oh, I know all this. There's so much more to learn. 

Again, we don't know what we don't know. It's important to keep an open mind and be looking for what's something new. I mean, a lot of people come to our programs that have experience, but it's like a refresher. 

And then they say, wow, you bring a lot of new things to the table. Yeah, that's a part of learning too. And our industry is evolving and growing. And so just constantly looking at new opportunities and new things to learn. 

Travis: And I hope this conversation will do that for people to really ignite, ignite and motivate them to continue learning, but also to think more meaningfully about what are their upcoming milestones in their career? What are they aiming at? How does what they're doing today relate to where they're going in the future? 

So I think this will help people think through some of those finer details. And Jerry, for people that want to learn more about the projects that you're involved in or the work that you're doing, how could they do that or work and find you? 

Jerry: Yeah, well, the primary website for the Executive Protection Institute is personalprotection.com. If they were also to put executiveprotectioninstitute.com, they would take them there. And they can look me up on LinkedIn and connect with me. I'm happy to any security practitioner. And when you connect with people on LinkedIn, that just being connected doesn't mean that much. 

If it's sometimes trying to find a way of introducing yourself or send a message, hey, I'm new to this industry, have any advice or something, people are surprised on time when they say, oh my God, I reached out to this old guy who's been in the industry a long time and he responded. I'm like that. I know that not everybody's like that. And you know that sometimes reaching out to people you don't know, they might think, who's this guy? 

I want to talk to this guy. But I'm kind of one of those that, you know, I love helping people and I get excited about helping people. And same thing when, you know, the encouragement to go to conferences and meet people and go to sessions and then after the session go up, you know, you might have to stand in line to talk to somebody, just say, I wanted to thank you. 

I learned a lot from your presentation and, you know, I have a question or, you know, can I reach out to you later sometime and you'll find out. But, you know, not everybody in the industry is open or things like that. But I'm here to help. I want to see people be successful in their career path, you know, and if it involves executive protection, that's going to my primary area of focus. But also as a business owner, somebody's inspiring or wanting to get into business, reach out. I do have a course on it, but I talk to people all the time, you know, people, you know, like me, LinkedIn messages, hey, I have this situation, what do you think? And, you know, should I do it or not? I'll share my opinion. So I'm here to help. 

Travis: And I think a lot of people out there, they don't realize how much a lot of us engage online. For example, if people send me messages the same way, or maybe they want to interview me about a particular topic that I might be knowledgeable about, probably 80% of the time, if they're serious, I will sit down and have a conversation with them. So I think that's a good lesson for people out there. Just reach out to other practitioners. I think they're more than willing to help. And Jerry, I really appreciate you sharing your time today. We talked about some really interesting topics, got to hear about your experience in educating practitioners, your philosophy about learning, about finding, and thinking about what you're passionate about, and what you want to be doing in the security industry. 

So I think this is going to be a really insightful conversation for people, and it'll really get the hamster wheel turning and get them thinking more deeply about their careers. So I really appreciate you joining me, Jerry. Thank you. 

Jerry: I appreciate you having this podcast, the security student, but just to help people be a student. And I think, so thank you for taking your time to make this podcast. So thank you very much, Travis. 

Travis: Of course. The pleasure is all mine.
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